65: The Unforeseen Benefits of Podcasting with Dr. Zoe Shaw
"Things just started happening for my brand that weren’t happening before I had the podcast."
Dr. Zoe Shaw is a licensed psychotherapist, motivational speaker, podcast host, and life coach.
After 15 years in traditional psychotherapy practice, Dr. Zoe jumped off the couch and now helps women using a different modality with a mix of virtual therapy, coaching services and programs designed specifically for women trying to have it all, who sometimes struggle in the superwoman game.
In this episode, Dr. Zoe discusses how she became an “accidental podcaster,” how her podcast has led to incredible opportunities such as being interviewed for Oprah Winfrey’s website, how her podcast has helped grow the life-coaching part of her business, the exact process for how she takes her audience from listeners to clients, how she uses Instagram to drive people to her podcast and vice versa, what she would do differently if she could start her podcast all over again, and more!
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Transcript
Welcome to podcasting for coaches. I'm Britany Felix and I'm a podcast launch consultant who specializes in helping coaches and consultants utilize the power of podcasting as a way to build brand awareness and generate new leads for their business. I realize not every new coach or consultant can afford to hire someone to help launch their show. So I created this podcast as a way to guide you through the process of launching and utilizing your very own podcast to help you grow your business and reach a new audience of adoring followers and potential clients. If you're ready to get your voice and podcast out into the world, head over to podcasting for coaches.com to learn more. Dr. Zoe Shah is a licensed psychotherapist motivational speaker podcast host, author of the ask Dr. Zoe column, a life coach and a fitness fanatic. She is a mom to five and a wife to one. She is passionate about helping women attain that elusive work life self relationship balanced by cultivating healthy minds and bodies. After 15 years in traditional psychotherapy practice, Dr. Zoe jumped off the couch and now helps women using a different modality with a mix of virtual therapy coaching services and programs designed specifically for women trying to have it all who sometimes struggle in a superwoman game. Dr. Zoe is a frequent blogger and is a your Tango and grit and grace project expert, writing about helping women redefine their Superwoman, you can find her in the media on Instagram at Dr. Zoe Shah, and in most social places at the handle, Dr. Zoe Shaw. So that's Dr. Zoe's formal bio. And my personal bio is Dr. Zoe and I have been working together for a while now. Work on her show with her and she is one of my favorite clients. And she is just a joy. And I love working with her. And I know you're gonna love her in this interview. So Dr. Zoe, thank you so much for being on the show.
01:57
Thank you, I'm so happy to be on the show and how nice that I'm one of your favorite clients.
02:03
You are. And I know, people probably think Oh, she says that to everybody. And I do say that to quite a few. But you really are one of them. Because you're just so easy to work with. And you really care about what you're talking about. I mean, you, this is your business, this is your life and has been for quite some time. And you're just one of the most genuinely pleasant people. So I love getting to learn from you as a listener of the show when I go through and edit it and just in working with you one on one.
02:29
Oh, thank you so much. And you are so easy to work with to so much appreciation.
02:35
That's the goal. So why don't you give us a little bit of a background about your podcast when it started, why you decided to start it and how it factors into your business today.
02:45
Sure, you know, I'm actually an accidental podcaster. What happened was I started this radio show, the owner of this radio station asked me if I'd be interested in doing a show on a station. And I was excited. And so I started the show. And I think I did it for about a year. But within maybe six months to eight months, I started realizing that the station wasn't doing so well. And it was probably gonna go out of business. And I was really enjoying the show, I was getting a lot of traction from the show. And I was thinking, Okay, what can I do from here? Because I didn't want to lose my show. And so I started looking into podcasting at myself. I did a lot of research, and I started to figure out how to podcast the radio show that I was that I was already doing. So I started doing kind of both podcasting, the actual show, which was actually a hassle. And you started with me on that.
03:40
It was interesting to say the least Yeah,
03:42
it was so difficult because I wasn't doing the traditional podcasting. We were recording it from the station, it was just a hassle. But that's how I got started, the station did eventually fold. So I did have some, you know, foresight in that. And it's actually better because I love podcasting. Now from my closet. It's awesome. And I've been able to continue what I got started there at the station.
04:05
As you mentioned, I did come in when you were still at the radio station. And there were some issues that are not typically involved with the podcast because we were taking one format and turning it into another and we didn't always have the original files to work with. And I remember having that conversation with you in the beginning where you said that you were thinking about, you know, stopping with the radio and going full force into podcast only version. And I was so thrilled to hear that because the content of your show is fantastic. And I am just speaking as a listener, I'd has to help so many people. And I didn't want your message to get lost because we didn't exactly have the best quality to begin with. So I am so glad that you made that switch personally. And do you mind talking to us a little bit about what that has been like since you have started this podcast, you know, for your business and how it has impacted your business.
04:55
Absolutely. You
04:56
know, everybody thinks about numbers and of course anybody Pastor does so that's always kind of on the forefront of your mind. And it was at first for me until I started to get clients and I started to have people emailing me and telling me how much the podcast has helped them. And I started getting speaking gigs. And things just started happening for my brand that weren't happening before I had the podcast. And so I recognized that more than the numbers, what's important is that the podcast actually creates some credibility for me. And so I have had some opportunities, like even getting the column at the grit and grace project. I recently, I submitted a query from Oprah calm, and they were looking specifically for a therapist who was already out in the media. And I was able to put, you know, the places that I'm out in the media and my podcast on there. And they accepted my query. They're doing an interview with me tomorrow. Wow. Yeah. So it's exciting. And I know a lot of the things that I've gotten recently, it's because I'm already putting myself out there. And it does create a sense of credibility and a platform.
06:03
Yeah, absolutely. And what I love about what you do is you're not a traditional coach, I mean, you're not a life coach, business coach, you are a, you know, a qualified, licensed psychotherapist. And so I think it's so interesting that you have chosen to take this approach, because I would imagine, speaking about these certain topics, there might be kind of an extra minefield here of what you're allowed to talk about how you're allowed to give advice, in what way, because you have this whole other aspect to it, where you don't just say you're a coach, and then you are. So how does that work with having to adhere to professional guidelines, but still being so out there in such a public way?
06:40
Right, you know, the whole scenery is changing when it comes to psychology, and social media and the media in general. You know, I started out over 20 years ago, and when we started out, we were taught in grad school, you are a blank slate, you don't let your clients know anything about you. That's how therapy is what we used to believe. That's how it's productive. That's the only way it can work. Because your client shouldn't be able to project anything onto you. Well, the world has changed. And as much as that might have worked in the past, it doesn't work anymore. And even APA and the different associations are recognizing that the world has changed. And it's hard as a therapist to kind of switch that modality. And it's funny because I have clients come into my office now. And they're like, oh, congratulations, your son got a scholarship? Or how's your daughter doing? I'm like, Oh, that's right. They know about me, and people hadn't even met, you know, when they come into my office, they've already listened to my podcast or read things I put out on the internet. So I do work as a life coach, in addition to being a psychotherapist, which, I know that my clinical training really serves my ability to be a life coach, because I can see things from so many different angles and people who just, you know, go into life coaching without training. But there are some ethical issues, especially when it comes to, you know, I can't do therapy outside of California, whereas I can do live coaching outside of California. And you have to be careful, of course, when you're talking about clients that you're always respecting, and keeping, you know, their information confidential.
08:15
Right. Okay. Well, so why don't you talk to us a little bit about how you have blended the life coaching in with your existing therapy business, and how the podcast factors into that in terms of funneling people into that business. Yeah. So,
08:29
you know, life coaching started up, I don't know, maybe 15 years ago. And it's kind of like the wild wild west because it used to be that this was a modality that only therapists could work in. And now all of a sudden life coaches are coming up, and really, in many ways, trying to take on some of the same services, as therapists, obviously, they're not working with severe mental disorders. But a lot of therapists don't work with severe mental disorders, either. We're capable of it. But we don't always and so it's been hard for a lot of therapists and there's been a there's a lot of kind of animosity sometimes between life coaches, and therapists, especially because we are really tied to some of our, you know, our licensing, and we have rules and regulations, whereas life coaching doesn't, because it was kind of a made up thing. And there are some phenomenal life coaches out there. So I forgot your question. But I decided, Okay, instead of you know, being bitter and angry, you know, that I paid, you know, $300,000 for my education, and someone can just put up a life, you know, shingle, I can join them too. And so I started learning, okay, what are the differences and really, when I look at those differences, life coaches really look forward. As they're working with you. They're really talking about things in the present and looking forward and helping you with really actionable steps to reach your goal, where as therapists we really look in the rearview mirror to help really serve your present. I think it's a more well rounded approach to dealing with Present issues, especially things that are keeping you stuck, although life coaching is excellent as well. But I think that my experience and my knowledge of that rearview mirror helps me to help people move forward with more lasting change.
10:14
Right. And I wouldn't I mean, I just want to make clear like neither one of us are discrediting life coaches, not at all the profession in general. I mean, you have incorporated that into your own business. So obviously, you see validity in that
10:23
without a doubt. Yes.
10:25
Right. So in terms of the podcast, how does that work for funneling those people in? because like you said, You can't practice therapy outside of California, but your podcast listeners are all over. So how does that work?
10:38
Well, it really has grown my life coaching business, because before, people would only find me in California. And when it comes to virtual work, which is another area that's really opening up for psychotherapists, and of course, life coaches, being able to have that national platform makes a total difference. So my podcast actually finds clients who are like, Oh, I want to work with her. And because I am a life coach, additionally, I can work with them.
11:07
And so what does that normally look like? So say, you have a podcast listener who's listening and thinks I want to work with her. What does that process look like for them? How have you set that up in your business?
11:17
So usually what happens and of course, I give, you know, on my podcast, I let them know you can connect with me and how you can and usually I get an email, sometimes I'll get somebody contacting me on Instagram, but most of it is an email, usually, you know, this is my problem. This is what's going on, can you help me, and I often will schedule a 30 minute consult where I kind of talk to them about their issue and see if it's something that is workable, some issue that I feel like I can help them with. And then we set up sessions, and our sessions are generally through zoom. Occasionally, I'll have clients who only want to do phone sessions, but most of them, we work through zoom.
11:52
And so for that initial console, is that something that you charge for? Is that free? It's free. Okay. You brought up Instagram? Which I actually am super glad that you did. Because I wanted to bring this up. If you didn't, you have a really good following on there. And you have an engaged community and you're putting out content all the time. How are you finding that your podcast and your social media presence? go hand in hand? Do they have one helps the other? What does that look like?
12:20
You know, Instagram is just crazy. I got on there. And that media number one, I love it. I hate Twitter, I just don't get it. My Instagram just seemed everything is just kind of come together with Instagram. And I like the modality and so I'm very social on there. And I have grown, I think I have close to 14,000 followers. And a lot of people do contact me on Instagram, and I have links to my podcast. So a lot of my traffic from my podcast is probably mostly driven from Instagram.
12:49
So would you say that you feel it is important to not just have a podcast and only put that out there, but also provide some type of a community space for your listeners to interact and engage with you.
12:59
Without a doubt. And for me, it is Instagram. I do have Facebook as well. But I don't have a Facebook group or a page. That's just for my podcast. That's one of my like to do's that I never got around to doing. But yeah, absolutely. It makes a big difference. Because that's really how your people find you. I mean, they can do it through the podcast, you know, programs, but people see you they get to know you. And then that creates the interest in them actually listening to your podcast.
13:26
And I know that your podcast has led to some other things besides having clients come in, which is, of course always great in the objective of every coach or consultant. But it's led to some other opportunities for you. Do you mind going into what some of those have been?
13:39
Well, I've gotten invites to do speaking engagements, which is wonderful. And it's really cool to have somebody in the audience says, Oh, I listened to your podcast. The first time that happened, I was like, What?
13:53
It kind of makes you feel like a little celebrity.
13:58
So shortly, probably about eight months into the podcast, I think is when I got my first speaking engagement, which then led to more paid speaking engagements, which is wonderful. And then like I said earlier, I also got my ass Dr. Zoe column at the grit and grace project, which I love. I love love and having a podcast and that platform, they listened to that. And it led them to want to have me in their magazine. And I think it's mainly my speaking engagements and my writing that have really opened doors for me.
14:32
Yeah, we just no small thing. I mean, I love that we're like, oh, it's just you know, it's just my speaking engagements. But that's huge. Like, that's a big thing that so many people want to break into, I think because when you have your own business, I think it's important to you know, everybody talks about diversifying because maybe you're gonna have a month where you don't have any leads coming in. For some reason. The universe is interesting that way sometimes. And so you have these other things that you can fall back on, like the speaking engagements or writing columns that are constantly You know, not only in some cases bringing in actual revenue, but also bringing in work exposure. Right. So that's something that I think doesn't get talked about enough, which I mentioned all the time on this podcast. But just the other opportunities that can come from starting a podcast. So many think I'll do this podcast, I'll put it out there, and it'll get me leads, but they don't necessarily consider all of the other unforeseen opportunities that a podcast provides.
15:24
Without a doubt. And I think in the beginning, I didn't really respect that either. until I started getting those opportunities. And just like, you know, this Oprah Magazine opportunity, if I didn't have the podcast, they would not have been as interested in me.
15:37
Yeah. Which is huge. I mean, I reacted to it when you said it earlier. But congrats on that. I didn't know that that had happened. And that's amazing. So kudos to you.
15:45
Thank you.
15:47
But you're right, because I have been, as a listener to this podcast, no testing out squad cast, or recording, you know, program for conducting interviews. And I've been providing real and honest feedback at the beginning of every episode for you know, this happened during this interview, and we have these issues. And you and I were talking before this, but the CEO of squad cast actually reached out to me because of this podcast and said, Listen, I really want to make this the best experience that it can be, can we schedule a call, so I can find out what your ideal, you know, experience with our service would be. And that's something that would never happen if I hadn't, you know, had the podcast and been out there speaking vocally about, you know, my opinions about and who knows what that's going to come to, you know, like, I have no idea where that relationship is going to develop and turn into. So there are some really, really, really amazing unforeseen benefits to podcasting. And I know that we are running out of time here. So I want to wrap up with one final question, which is, if you could start your podcast journey all over again. So even going all the way back to when it was a radio show? If you could do it all over again, is there anything that you would do differently?
16:53
Oh, my gosh, there's so many things. I would plan ahead so that I had episodes bank before I even launched, I would probably consult more about the audio in the beginning so that I could really understand how to set it up, even maybe at the radio station, and reduce the sound issues that I had. And you know, what else I think really helped me is when I finally got rid of the shoulds, when it comes to the length of the show, because I stopped having as many guests, which I think was a good thing. And then I felt all of this pressure to do an hour long show. And when I got rid of that and realize, okay, the show doesn't have to be an hour long, my audience can get a lot out of a 20 minute episode out of, you know, 15 minutes. And when I got rid of that it helped me so much. I think getting rid of some of the shoulds when it comes to length or, or certain things like that would have helped a lot.
17:52
Yeah, and I was pretty vocal when you are when you were doing your solo episodes and trying to convince me to do more of them, because I think they are fantastic. And your interviews are great as well. But I think the spotlight of your episodes should really be on you because you're extremely knowledgeable, you're extremely personable. I know I mean, even just me who I'm not necessarily even your target audience gets a lot of value out of your show. So thank you for the work that you're doing. And thank you so much for being on the show. And I look forward to working with you for a long time.
18:23
Oh, thank you so much. And I do too. You're awesome.
18:30
And that wraps up another episode of podcasting for coaches. If you'd like to connect with me further, you can do so on Instagram at podcasting for coaches. If you know it's time to finally get serious about starting your podcast, go to podcasting for coaches calm and click on the work with me tab in the main menu to learn more about my one on one launch consultation packages or my self paced online course. And I look forward to seeing the podcasts that you create and put out into the world.