111: Growing Your Audience Through Podcast Guesting with Jason Cercone

Written By Britany Felix
 
111 Jason Cercone Podcasting for Coaches Britany Felix.png

What’s This Episode About?

Jason Cercone is a podcast consultant, podcast communications pro, chicken wing connoisseur, and all-around well-adjusted bon vivant making his residence in Pittsburgh, PA. He is the Founder of Cercone Consulting, through which he helps brands and professionals leverage the authority-building power of podcasting. When he isn't glued to a mic or screen producing words to live by, you'll find him consuming a good beer, obsessing over his fantasy football lineups, and doing everything in his power to break 80 on the golf course.

In this episode, Jason shares why he decided to start helping people with their podcast guest pitches, the guide he’s created that will help you build a pitch producers can’t say no to, why you should absolutely avoid the “spray and pray” method when sending out pitches to be a guest on podcasts, whether or not it’s necessary to actually listen to a podcast before pitching yourself as a guest, why you shouldn’t be too focused on pitching only to shows with large followings, how podcast guesting can help the SEO of your business, what the process looks like for someone who utilizes his podcast guest pitching services, the thing he does when it comes to podcast guest appearances that almost no one else does even though they should, the one thing he wants people to tweak about their pitches immediately, and more.  

Transcript

Welcome to podcasting for coaches. I'm Britany Felix and I'm a podcast launch consultant who specializes in helping coaches and consultants utilize the power of podcasting as a way to build brand awareness and generate new leads for their business. I realize not every new coach or consultant can afford to hire someone to help launch their show. So I created this podcast as a way to guide you through the process of launching and utilizing your very own podcast to help you grow your business and reach a new audience of adoring followers and potential clients. If you're ready to get your voice and podcast out into the world, head over to podcasting for coaches.com to learn more.

Welcome to Episode 111 of podcasting for coaches. In this episode, I am speaking with Jason silicone and he is a podcast consultant, podcast communications Pro, chicken wing connoisseur and all around well adjusted vol vivo. Not sure I pronounced that correctly, but we're gonna roll with it, making residents in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He is the founder of silicone consulting through which he helps brands and professionals leverage the authority building power of podcasting. When he isn't glued to a mic or screen producing Words To Live By. You'll find him consuming a good beer obsessing over his fantasy football lineups, and doing everything in his power to break at on the golf course. As you'll hear at the start of this episode, I was actually recently and by recently at the time that I'm releasing this episode, it's been a few months ago, a guest on his podcast, and we had such a fantastic time having that conversation that I absolutely knew I needed to get him on the show and I am super excited that it finally happened. Also, as you'll hear, I don't think it's going to be the last. So in this episode, Jason shares why he decided to start helping people with their podcast guest pitches specifically, the guide He has created that will help you build a pitch producers can't say no to why you should absolutely avoid the spray and pray method when sending out pitches to be a guest on podcast. Whether or not it's necessary to actually listen to a podcast. And if you do do you really have to listen to the full thing before pitching yourself as a guest. why you shouldn't be too focused on pitching only to shows with large followings. How podcast guesting can help the SEO of your business. what the process looks like for someone who utilizes his podcast guest pitching services. The thing he does when it comes to podcast guest appearances that I am telling you almost no one else does. And they absolutely should. I'm gonna bet that's probably include you if you do guest pitching already. And the one thing he wants people to tweak about their pitches, he mmediately. Now before we really jump into this episode, I want to make one little disclaimer. This was the first interview I had recorded in a few months for the podcast because as you know, I went on hiatus. And we recorded this over the summer. But it had been a little while since I've done one. I screwed up my settings a little bit off. So please forgive me. If you want to hear what audio sounds like when there's clipping because the microphone is a little bit too loud. You're welcome you now get this example. I don't think it's that bad. If it really was I wouldn't release it. It was clipping just a hair. So you will hear a little bit of distortion. But it's such a great interview that I didn't want to do Jason the disservice of not releasing it just because my audio sounds a little bit off, but I think it'll still be good. But I did want to let you know that it is not indicative of a normal episode if this is your first time listening. And lastly, if you want to find links to the resources mentioned in this episode, just go to podcasting for coaches. com, click on the episodes tab in the main menu and go to episode number 111. Alright, without further ado, let's go ahead and dive right on in with Jason circum. Jason, thank you so much for being on the show. I am super excited to get to talk to you again. Because for the listeners who don't follow me on social media and didn't see the updates, I was actually a guest fairly recently on your podcast. So do you mind just kind of giving a brief introduction they've already heard your formal bio, but you know who you are, what you do, and a little bit about that podcast?

4:14

Yeah, it's great to bring things full circle. Happy to be here on your show with you Britany My name is Jason sir Cohen, I run a company called sir cone consulting, where I work with brands and professionals on various aspects of podcasting from helping them get booked on shows to helping people and basically just anybody aspiring to leverage the power of podcasting, helping them develop a good pitch that they can use to get themselves featured as a guest. And then I also help other podcasters and aspiring podcasters with basic consulting some tips and strategies for marketing and production with anything they'd like to do with getting their show off the ground. So in a nutshell, that's pretty much how I spend my day.

4:58

And what is your podcast

4:59

My podcast is called pod theory. It started as a daily show with episodes running about five to 10 minutes. And then I started to do some interviews. And you were one of those interviews Britany. And we had a great time. And it made me realize how much I was missing that aspect of podcasting. During the pandemic. I shouldn't say before the pandemic, I was doing a lot of shows with people in person, and remotely as well. But ultimately, I decided I was just going to do something short and sweet, not thinking that I would end up missing that aspect. So what ended up happening was around episode actually right on episode 125, I decided to take a brief hiatus and retool the structure of the show. And I'm going to be releasing season two in the very near future. And I'm going to be having a featured co host for each season. So we're going to tackle different subjects and topics throughout that season. So there's really not a set number of episodes that will be featured in that season. But I'm pleased to announce that Travis brown of pod dex will be the season two featured host. And we're going to talk about a lot of myths, and just overall misconceptions that people have about podcasting. So I'm looking forward to producing content with Travis. Yeah, there's a lot of crap out there.

6:16

Yeah, that's one of my favorite topics is just the the myths and misconceptions around podcasting, I actually do a whole presentation about it. That's one of the three core presentations that I normally do when I'm speaking to, you know, coaches and consultants who are interested in podcasting, because there is just so much misinformation out there. Yeah. So I appreciate you shining some light on on that.

6:38

If that's what I can do to do my part, I am more than happy to jump in with full feet right up to the top of my head and make people realize that there are a lot of gurus out there spreading nonsense around. And they need to know the truth before they get into this game.

6:52

Absolutely. All right. Well, I do want to go ahead and dive into the topic that is mentioned in the title of the episode, what everyone is here for what you mentioned, when you are giving us your brief little bio there. And that is how you help people with their pitches. And that's to be a guest on other podcasts. So the people who are listening to this, they are podcasters are interested in becoming podcasters. You listening you know that that's, that's why you're here. But I don't want you to discount how powerful being a guest can be for your business, but also for the growth of your own show. So Jason, why don't you just kind of dive us right in here? What is it that you do? And like, why pitching? Why are you helping people get these guest appearances? Why is that something you've decided to focus on?

7:38

There's two reasons. One is as a podcast host, I get a lot of pitches sent to me that are terrible. Yeah, they're just they're absolutely irrelevant. They suck. There's no thought put into it. So I want to help people not do that. I want to help them approach podcasts that are right for their brand, and right for their message. And the other big reason is that whether I'm on clubhouse, whether I'm talking with other podcasters, no matter what the setting is, one of the biggest questions that podcasters bring up is how do I market my podcast? How do I grow my audience? How do I get my brand exposed to more people? And the typical answers are social media, sorry, YouTube channel, use email. And these are all great things. But as a podcaster, and being a part of this rapidly growing rapidly evolving community, I feel the most powerful way to find more listeners for your podcast is to go on other podcasts. Yes, have fun with other podcasters have great conversations, establish your authority show people that you're an interesting person that they should be listening to. Because if they listen to you on another podcast, and they love what you have to say, the next step is going to be to find your podcast and listen to more of what you have to say. Because if you're a person that's providing value, they're going to want more of it. So there's no better platform than the one that you're utilizing every day for your for your own show.

9:05

Absolutely. And if it wouldn't completely destroy the audio, I would be clapping right now. I completely agree with everything that you just said. And for you listening if you have been listening for a while and you've heard my episodes on how to grow your audience and those things, podcast guesting is like, the best way to do that, because you are eliminating so many hurdles right off the bat for people who still aren't really on the podcast train yet. There are so millions upon millions upon millions, probably even billions of this point of people who don't quite understand what a podcast is or how to listen. So you just completely eliminate all of that by reaching people like you said on the the platform in the medium that you were already utilizing. So I could not agree more. So what is it that you do to help people with these pitches Do you coach them program that they go through on their own. What does that look like?

10:03

Yeah, I have developed a very brief guide that points out some of the problems that people have with developing their own pitch. And then it retools, what a lot of people are used to doing. And it gives them a template that they can build a pitch that producers can't say no to. Now, of course, I say that tongue in cheek, because is anything you do in this realm 100% effective? Absolutely not, there are some people that just won't respond to what you put out there.

10:33

Well, and also, it doesn't matter how good your pitches if you're pitching to a show that doesn't even have guests, which is to me several times. Yeah,

10:40

that's, that's and that's one of the big aspects. And that's one of those spray and pray approaches to where you just throw your name, whatever podcast is going to accept your email, and you hope one of them says, Yes, that's totally ineffective. I compare that to the folks that go on LinkedIn, and just immediately connect with somebody and start pitching in their business like you woke up that day in, we're looking for that, right? How the world operates, you have to establish a relationship, and you have to show genuine interest in someone else's podcasts in order for them to want to even have a conversation with you. Yep, you can be the most interesting person in the world. But if you're not taking the time to show them that you care about what they do, they're not going to care that you're that interesting, they're just going to go to the person that's actually investing some time in doing research to make sure they're a good fit, to sending them all of the assets that they would need, such as a media kit, or imagery so they can build assets to promote their show, there are so many things that you can do proactively, in addition to building a good quality pitch, that it puts you ahead of all of the other pitches they get whether they get good ones, bad ones, or a combination of both, because the odds are they're getting a combination of both, right? You want to be that person that stands out, it's just like going into a job interview. What are you going to do to be that number one candidate? What are you going to do to stand out above what everyone else is coming into that interview with, right, and if you don't take the time to do that, then you're pretty much just going to be treading water. And you may land a show here and there. But it's not going to be enough to truly be effective and impact what you're trying to accomplish.

12:17

Yeah, it's not going to be nearly enough of an of an ROI, because you're going to be putting in so much time pitching to all the wrong people in the wrong ways. Absolutely. I mean, as a perfect example, just last week, I got a pitch. It was you know, somebody pitching on behalf of somebody else. And honestly, the person sounded like maybe they might have been an okay fit. But it literally said they didn't update the podcast name. So which is the brackets of insert podcast name here? And I'm like, how lazy, can you be like, come on. One thing you have to pay in this thing? Yeah, and so it's just like that kind of stuff, like just don't make stupid mistakes for one. But that tells me that what they're doing is they're just sending out these mass pitches, they're not checking out the show to see if this person is actually a good fit. And that's how those mistakes get made. Because they're just sending out tons and tons and tons. And that's not, that's not the way to go about it. I didn't even respond to this email. And I'm not going to

13:12

know I mean, you can really work smart not hard in this area. Because I mean, unless you've got some kind of bulk email sender, which I wouldn't even know how to begin explaining how one of those would work, because I've never taken the time to figure that out. Instead of trying to send out a bulk amount of emails, take a couple hours a day and find one good podcast that you can spend some time with right or maybe two and just listened to some of the content and go through the show descriptions and look at the titles and look at how they market their show. You can learn a lot

13:44

that was gonna be my next question was, do you recommend that people actually take a listen to an episode before they pitch? Like, is that not incredibly time consuming? Or do you think it's worth it? Should they listen to a whole episode? Just a few minutes? What's your advice on that?

13:57

What I'm doing when I'm looking for my clients, and this is something we'll get to because in addition to helping with the pitch, I actually will help clients get booked and handle handle all aspects of their communications, which is one of the big services I provide. And we can talk about that in more detail too. But what I do when I'm looking up shows is I'll typically find a show that's relevant. I'll look through the catalog, I'll find some titles that jump out, but then I won't, I won't necessarily listen to the entire show all the time. If it's something that sucks me in I absolutely will. But what I'm mainly looking for is good audio quality, good interview flow, because in getting to know my clients, I want to make sure that they're going to gel with that guest. And if I could tell from listening to a chunk of that content, that there might be a conflict or even something that we need to talk about ahead of time saying, Hey, you know, this person tends to interrupt when you start talking just so you're aware of that because if you have someone that hates that, which I'm one of those people, if you're constantly being interrupted, it can really throw you off your game. Yeah. So you want to make sure that everything is covered. from front to back. And that's like I said, that's something that I look for. If you feel that listening to an entire podcast is beneficial to you, then absolutely go for it. But definitely get a chunk of the episode that stood out to you based on the title and make sure the description is good. And then I always look at reviews, that's just something that I will look at, I don't, it doesn't make or break a decision, because some shows are new. And I don't discount any podcast, some people say all they've got to have a built a big built in audience before I will go on, that's a bad way to look at it. Because you never shouldn't never know if that show is going to blow up in the future. Right. And when it was up, people are going to go through that catalogue. And if you're part of it, you have that opportunity to make an impact on that listener. So you want to make sure that if all the criteria fits, and there's good production quality in play, go for it, make that pitch and see if you can get yourself featured.

15:51

Yeah, well, I liked that you brought that up about, you're not too concerned about the built in audience from the get go. Because I know a lot of people who are like, Oh, you have to have like so many downloads per episode before I'll be a guest on your show, or they're so concerned about that. And I get it. I mean, I get why they think that because so much about being in podcasting, and being in business is all numbers driven. Like we want analytics and data. But the thing with podcasting is, it's actually much more powerful. Generally speaking, if you do have a smaller audience that's super hyper engaged, rather than this massive audience, where they're not really engaged. There's no community aspect behind it. You know what I mean? Like, there might be 100,000 people listening to that. But they're just listening because it's pure entertainment value. They don't actually like care about the messaging, they don't care about what the host is doing. So I think being intentional about the shows that you're on and focusing more on that, are you reaching the right people? Are they engaged, checking out the host social media account? Like when they post episodes? Do they have people commenting on that, and like talking about, Oh, I love this episode, it was so great. This episode really helped me like that's a super engaged audience, and you're gonna see so much more IRR or ROI on that than you are on just going on like some, you know, some of their massive show where their audience doesn't really care.

17:09

Yeah, I think as podcasters we tend to get lost in those vanity metrics. And we think that millions of downloads is the only ticket to being successful in this world. And that's just not the case. I've simplified it down to if I can make an impact on one person with every piece of content that I put out there that I've just done something good. Whether they comment whether they send me a message saying that episode was great, whether they subscribe to my newsletter, whatever happens if the piece of content that I put out there hit one person, fantastic, I did my job. And the great thing about podcasts are their longevity. With evergreen content, you may impact a person today. And that same piece of content could impact somebody five years from now, as long as the producers aren't taking that content down. Or if it's your show, as long as you're not taking it down. People can find that and they can be impacted by what you're putting out there. There is no other medium that has that type of longevity. So you have to keep that in mind as well, when you're producing your own content. And when you're going on other shows, it's just another another pillar and in the criteria that you should look for and not want to rule out shows because you know, maybe they don't have a lot of episodes yet, right? You want to make sure that if again, if it matches your brand message and what you want to accomplish, you want to move forward and get your voice on there.

18:24

Yeah, I completely agree. Well, and I think another aspect of it is that a lot of people don't think about is it also just going to help SEO and help traffic coming to your site. Because then you're in multiple places you're showing up and more Google searches for different search terms, you're having, you know, links pointing to your site. So like, these are all those kind of like, ignored benefits of being a guest on a podcast. I mean, obviously, if they don't post show notes and stuff that's a little bit different. But most podcasts these days have some form of show notes somewhere, even if they're super basic. I mean, at the bare minimum, they have their like default page for the episode from their hosting service. Right, that still exists somewhere online. So I know you talked a little bit about how you actually kind of facilitate the process of guesting. So what does that look like when somebody like works with you? And they say, hey, I want to be a guest on more podcasts? What does that look like? You know, kind of take us through that process?

19:18

I take a very thorough approach and a lot of what I do I always compare it to how would my mom want to be treated? If she was going into this world? How would I do this for her if she was going to be a guest on podcast, which is incredibly cliche and trite, but at the same time, it helps me be thorough, right? Because I want to make sure that anybody I'm working with is getting the best experience from this so they can get a return. Because again, as we know, with podcasts, the return isn't always immediate, right? And I think the sooner we all make peace with the fact that real results aren't immediate. The happy we're going to we are going to be and it's going to keep us chugging along in this podcasting world. But the approach that I take is Obviously, once we decide how many podcasts you want to be on, I want to have a full understanding of what you want to accomplish. So I do an actual podcast interview. Now, it's not something that gets published. But it's something where we'll sit down and I'll record a conversation and I have a series of questions that I'm going to ask right out of the gate, that will give me an understanding of your background of what you're doing now about why you've chosen this platform to amplify your message and build your brand, and how we can make that happen. And then from there, I will cultivate a media kit that will include information about you your expert topics that you can talk about. And then I will also include any links to any past videos, or podcasts or articles that you may have written or been featured in to give the podcast producers that will be sending this content to a full scope of who you are, and why you're going to be a knockout guests for them to have on the show, then it really comes down to one of two choices, either we'll work together to pick some shows, or you say take the reigns, and I just start looking for shows, they're going to fit the message that we've built together. And in doing that, I will craft the pitch that I can then send out. Of course, all of this is done with my clients approval, making sure that they have looked at what I'm sending out. So they can say yes, or Hey, tweak this, or take this out whatever they feel might be need to be done. And then we just start getting you booked. And I like to keep in good contact with the podcasts because I don't want to just, I've seen this done before where they just get somebody set up with an interview. And then that's where it ends. Like, I'd rather follow up with that podcast after the interview. Okay, what did you think, and then I can compare it to what my client thinks. And if there's a disconnect there, we may have to address something, either on one side or the other.

21:53

So I really quickly I love that you brought that up, because I have been podcasting for almost six years now. And I have had one person do this one time, follow up after the interview that they pitched like on behalf of somebody I was like, Hey, we just wanted to check in How did it go? Do you have any feedback? One person has done that in almost six years. So kudos to you.

22:19

Yeah, that was where, you know, I looked at some companies that were doing some great things. And I felt like, you know, this is one of those things where there's a piece of the pie for everybody. And I wanted to emulate some of the things they were doing. But I also looked at some things that those same companies might be doing that are falling a little short. And that was one of them. And I felt like that's a that's just the great part of communications. And that's really where I'm putting a lot of my eggs in regards to my business is on the communications front, you know, I went to college and got a degree in communications, it's great that 20 years later, I can put it to work. Finally, right. But, but, but no, ultimately, the goal is to keep that communication because as a booking agent, I'm going to have more clients for them. If I can build good rapport with that podcast, and they have good rapport with me, it's going to be a no brainer, when I say hey, I've got this person now. And I know they're gonna be a good fit because this person was and then this is how I'm building my network at the same time. So it's really a double edged sword. But now the long term goal is to have this enormous pool of great podcasts that I can reach out to, and I have an enormous pool of clients that are looking for good shows to be on. And it's just a natural fit, that they're going to go on these shows and make an impact and everybody wins, the client wins because they get to be in front of a great audience, the podcasts win because they get to create great content for that audience. There's a lot of great advantages if you do it, right. But if you don't be thorough with that follow up process and knowing Hey, when's the show going to go out? It's like communicate that with my client, we know when we can be on the lookout for it. So we can promote it for you as well. You got to have good communication and play or you're just not going to be able to keep up with all of that.

23:55

Right? So do you handle that part of it the promotion part?

23:59

That's so much, because what I'll do is if there's any assets that they have created, that they would like us to share, I will share that with my clients and they would put it out on their network screen much more impactful on their own network, but I'll make sure I gather that information. So they can say hey, here's some information that you can use to share your interview.

24:16

Okay, so we are approaching the end of our time here. So I have one final question related to this topic, which is if there's one thing that you wish people would either stopped doing or do differently, or start doing if they're completely ignoring this, so just one thing that you want people to tweak about their pitches starting today. What would that be?

24:41

Do your research, that would be my number one piece of advice and you had mentioned the pitch that you got before. I actually got one right before the Fourth of July, from a guy saying that this is a terrible time of year for dogs because dogs hate fireworks and he could come on like that. podcasts and talk about that. Okay, so my podcast with 125 episodes has had five guests. We talk about podcasting, tips, tactics, strategies, how in the hell is that relevant to what I do? and Why would my audience care about that. And that's what you have to be thinking about is, you have to be putting yourself in front of an audience that's going to care about what you have to say, you know, if you're in real estate, and you're gonna go on podcasts that talk about real estate, but then you pitch yourself to be on some show that talks about wrestling, right? Well, how are you going to win there, there is very little to no crossover appeal there. podcasting is beautiful, because it can be so niche, and so topic driven, that if you find the right shows based on your mission, and what you want to accomplish with building your brand through this platform, you spend your time there, you have so many more opportunities for gains than just by going on any podcast that's willing to put your voice centerstage. Right. So that's the one piece of advice I would say is to stop spraying and praying and actually do some due diligence to make sure the show makes sense for you. And for the creators and for the audience that's going to be consuming it.

26:16

Perfect. I love it. Well, Jason, thank you so much for coming on. Where can people learn more about your offering that you mentioned earlier? And then also connect with you directly if they want to work with you on utilizing the power of podcasts and guesting

26:31

Jason sercos calm is the hub for everything you can connect with me there you can learn about the pitch, which is the short guide, you can pick that up for free on my website, Jason circle, calm the pitch. And also if you're looking for more assistance in this area, and would like to actually have a partnership with me where we find the right podcast and work together on all communications. Also on my website. It's Jason circle, comm slash guest spotter. And all those pages can be found in the main menu bar. So hit up Jason circle COMM And you can connect with me directly.

27:05

Perfect. Well, we will have a link to everything in the show notes. The URL was given at the beginning of this episode. So again, Jason, just thank you so much. I feel like you need to come back on at some point because we have so many different things we could talk about. And I'm also really curious after you change the format of your show, how that goes. So if you're open to coming back on, I have a feeling for you listening, you'll see Jason again. I would love to come back. I've had a lot of fun today. And that wraps up another episode of podcasting for coaches. If you'd like to connect with me further, you can do so on Instagram at podcasting for coaches. If you know it's time to finally get serious about starting your podcast, go to podcasting for coaches comm and click on the work with me tab in the main menu to learn more about my one on one launch consultation packages or my self paced online course. And I look forward to seeing the podcast that you create and put out into the world.

 
Britany Felix
Previous

112: Using Pod Swaps to Grow Your Network with Diann Wingert
Next

110: The Latest Podcast Industry Updates